930 = Widowmaker

Jan 26, 2023,21:53 PM
 


I have driven lots of 911s on the street and track - the modern varieties are relatively tame and well sorted out -- but the older turbos were dangerous. 

The 911 Turbo aka 930 picked up the nickname "the Widowmaker" because of its unusual driving characteristics, how its weight shifted to and fro, and most important of all, how the turbo lag tended to deliver a surge of power at occasionally the exact wrong moment. 

It truly was a street-legal race car that was far beyond the average purchaser's ability to handle. "Never lift" was the counterintuitive instruction to new drivers, just power through and do not let go of the throttle or else you will see your own tail pass you by. 


-current owner, 1988 Porsche 911 Cabrio M491



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A post on Porsche 911s.

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-11:44
I guess I am far from being the only one to love and have a huge admiration for the Porsche 911, which will celebrate the 60th anniversary of its unveiling, next year. 60 years, already!!! I never owned a Porsche, I considered the idea many times, and I a...  
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993 all the time

 
 By: penfriend : December 25th, 2022-12:00
I had two of them, Targa and Turbo. Best air cooled technology, best proportions
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The air cooled engine is a strong argument. Thanks for your feedback, my friend. Which one, between the Targa and the Turbo, did you prefer?

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-12:03
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I cannot say

 
 By: penfriend : December 25th, 2022-13:13
First bought the Targa for the roof but it was totalled in an accident. Then the turbo for the power. Both lovely.
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Too bad for the Targa.

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-16:02
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Great post.

 
 By: redbox : December 25th, 2022-13:03
Don't forget to talk about the 912. That help keep Porsche alive when they switched from the 356 to the 911. The 911 was too expensive and sales were not good. So Porsche came up with the 912, a scaled back 911 and the rest is history.
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The 912, yes! But in my idea, the 911 must have a 6 cylinders....

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-13:08
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And the funny fact that Porsche initially wanted to call it "901" but Peugeot had the rights to a three digit number with a zero in the middle- hence the 911.

 
 By: LarsG : December 25th, 2022-13:21
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Yes!

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-16:02
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Timeless! Love the 911!

 
 By: Chronometer (aka yacomino) : December 25th, 2022-13:15
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Thanks for looking, Chronometer.

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-16:02
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I´d go for a 997 for a daily driver and G-series for the weeekend. Enjoy!

 
 By: LarsG : December 25th, 2022-13:21
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Nice solution.

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-16:03
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993 Targa

 
 By: GuyT : December 25th, 2022-13:38
Unlikely to ever own one and rather wasted where I live but the 993 Targa for me. Love that sliding glass roof.
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2 for the 993, one for the 997. Thanks, Guy.

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-16:04
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I’d go for a 911 turbo type 930 from 1988.

 
 By: borisundercover : December 25th, 2022-13:51
300hp 3.3 Liters 6 cylinders (I stole the pics on but I prefer the very same model with side grills.) ...  
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That was a superb beast. 2 993, 1 997, 1 930.

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-16:05
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Owned a 964 Series

 
 By: Ted O : December 25th, 2022-15:19
Was a 1990 Targa, just like the is photo, and how I do miss it! ...  
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How lovely. 2 993 / 1 997 / 1 930 and 1 964.

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-16:05
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911s are gorgeous cars with tons of presence...

 
 By: mdg : December 25th, 2022-16:11
...either moving or standing still. My only issue with them is this; they are GTs (Grand Touring) automobiles. They should be fast but comfortable. But every article I've ever read about them mentions that they are noisy at speed. Mostly road noise/tire r... 
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So they should rather be sport cars than GT? More like the first generations, then?

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-17:06
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They have the speed and grip of sports cars...

 
 By: mdg : December 25th, 2022-18:34
...but most are automatic transmission, and if you look at your photos, they have grown huge and heavy over the years. They are a weird mix of GT and sports to me. You can order the 'T' version that is lighter and probably more true to the spirit of the o... 
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Hmm, the GT 3 Touring. I see! A great compromise.

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-18:54
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It's true, I think Porsche hits their weight targets by sacrificing sound deadening and comfort. Iconic status seems to have earned them a free pass on this.

 
 By: Fastwong : December 25th, 2022-21:30
Too small and noisy for a GT car, too big with useless rear seats for a sports car.... but maybe that's what makes thee 911 great even today. The ultimate compromise do everything car. I'd rather have a v12 front engine car for a road trip, a mid engine t... 
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Still, they are much heavier than the original, but as any other car, by the way.

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-21:32
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Love the 997

 
 By: jim_94104 : December 25th, 2022-16:19
but can't afford one, especially under the current "premium" pricing environment 😅 hope to be able to find a used 718 Cayman in the NY.
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One more for the 997. 2 993 / 2 997 / 1 930 and 1 964.

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-17:06
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2nd generation for me.

 
 By: RabidManatee : December 25th, 2022-17:14
930 would be amazing but I’d “settle” for a Carrera. I had a chance to buy one before prices went ballistic but didn’t; although the car was perfect, the seller was asking for a little too much money and I wasn’t sold on the color (Guards Red — to me red ... 
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1 for the second generation non Turbo. I totally see your point. The Alpine is a super car on that matter.

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-17:16
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My 991.2 Targa 4 GTS Arena Red

 
 By: DocAbe : December 25th, 2022-17:22
Enter text ...  
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Lucky you! Welcome here!

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-17:29
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Thanks

 
 By: DocAbe : December 25th, 2022-17:30
Been a member for a while but got locked out of my account and system wouldn’t let me reset password
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Too bad!

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-17:33
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PS: 1 991 / 2 993 / 2 997 / 1 930 and 1 964.

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-17:34
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All the greatest hits, Nico!

 
 By: 997c4gts : December 25th, 2022-17:30
The 997 GTS has been the sweet spot for me since 2014 and going to add a 992 Carrera T before the petrol engine is banned in the UK by 2030. Wonder what specials they’ll come out with for 60th Anniversary next year?! ...  
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One more for the 997. Superb one! 1 991 / 2 993 / 3 997 / 1 930 and 1 964.

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-17:36
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I’ve always pictured you a vintage 911 kind of guy.

 
 By: jp884 : December 25th, 2022-18:55
I appreciate the vintage but don’t appreciate the upkeep. One of my good friends had a 964 turbo that he finally traded in towards a 488 because he got tired of chasing the gremlins and in constant repair of something. My personal sweet spot is the 991. G... 
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Thanks for your useful and interesting comments, mon ami. I will keep you posted.

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-19:06
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I look forward to see where your heart takes you!

 
 By: jp884 : December 25th, 2022-21:14
No wrong choice there, Porsche can be forever cars if you decide it to be.
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I will keep you posted.

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-21:19
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Thanks for a great post!

 
 By: MichaelC : December 25th, 2022-19:08
I have also never owned one but maybe one day. It is impossible to choose wrong. The prices are so astronomical, that would lead me to order a new one if able to source at MSRP.
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The 996 is quite affordable. The 997 is not too badly priced, either.

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-21:20
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You’re absolutely right

 
 By: Blue and White : January 15th, 2023-18:46
I have not owned one either (and maybe it works out someday?) but it’s probably impossible to go wrong with any 911….they’re magnificent sports cars.
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+1!

 
 By: amanico : January 15th, 2023-19:24
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I gravitate to the 964. But I would happily drive just about any 911. Someday.🤞

 
 By: BigAppleBill : December 25th, 2022-20:32
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1 991 / 2 993 / 3 997 / 1 930 and 2 964. Thanks,mon ami.

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-21:20
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Stubbornly Overrated... But very good once you know how to drive it...

 
 By: patrick_y : December 25th, 2022-21:50
Let me start off with the following. I really like Porsches, but I feel the vast majority of people who buy them have NO IDEA what they're buying. Let me explain... Porsches and BMWs are two luxury/premium German car marques. Porsche is considered luxury....  
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Highly interesting and impressive answer, my dear Patrick. Thank you so much for that. Now...

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-22:01
Now, about driving experience... There are indeed two schools: Those who like the electronic assistance, and yes, you are right, I already read that the recent 911 systems are very efficient. And those who prefer to face the difficulty and to feel the car... 
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You might want to consider a 997 series then...

 
 By: patrick_y : December 25th, 2022-22:07
The 997 generation were produced in model year 2005 to 2011. Earlier models have the risk of an "IMS" failure. The IMS is an "intermediate shaft bearing" that has the potential to fail. This problem plagues all engines up until the 2008 model year. It als... 
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So, 997 from 2008 to the end of production year, then?

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-22:09
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Or GT 2 or 3 versions? As it seems that they didn't have this IMS problem.

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-22:11
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Right! Although the Mezger engine has its own set of problems...

 
 By: patrick_y : December 26th, 2022-00:22
The Mezger engine, designed by a man named Mezger, has certain unusual reliability problems. Sometimes they're dramatic. So everything needs to be carefully scrutinized. But I would say any of the 997 GT3s are extremely desirable cars. The steering is won... 
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Yes. Although avoid 2009s.

 
 By: patrick_y : December 25th, 2022-22:16
There are two sub-generations of 997s. Porschephiles call them 997.1 and 997.2. You'll notice that the headlight and front bumper changed and the rear taillamp changed as well. I would get either a late year 997.1 or a late year 997.2. The first couple of... 
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Wow, that's a true mine field! I didn't suspect that.

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-22:19
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Yes. But if you're considering a GT3 model, this is less of an issue...

 
 By: patrick_y : December 26th, 2022-00:28
GT3 models generally don't have the IMS issue. And even the 997.2 GT3 doesn't have direct injection. So if you're looking at a GT3 model, you're completely safe! But they have their own problems. Basically, if you drive the car hard, you need to check hos... 
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I will keep that in mind.

 
 By: amanico : December 26th, 2022-11:01
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Wow, I missed some great posts over the holidays! Patrick is on the money. One thing to note is 911s don't really dance imho, best drive before you buy!

 
 By: Fastwong : January 15th, 2023-01:48
The big fat tires on the back and weight balance mean most of the time the car wants to understeer, car really needs to be moving and on the power to get it play and then you're going quite fast, np for the track but tough on public roads. As Patrick note... 
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Visualizing that made me want to go for a drive!

 
 By: patrick_y : January 15th, 2023-05:10
Unfortunately, it's pouring rain out here!
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Great feedback, my friend. Thanks for sharing.

 
 By: amanico : January 15th, 2023-09:57
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Not a 911 but it does make my heart beat!!!

 
 By: KonaJ : December 25th, 2022-21:59
Wish all a Sassy New Year! ...  
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Sassy New Year! ;)

 
 By: amanico : December 25th, 2022-22:04
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😊🤙

 
 By: KonaJ : December 25th, 2022-22:17
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Big Congrats!

 
 By: patrick_y : December 26th, 2022-19:19
That's quite a machine!
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earlier models.....

 
 By: berlin90 : December 25th, 2022-23:00
911 from the early 1970's or maybe a 911sc.......really an amazing car to drive if it is sorted out well ...  
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Ooooh, yes, this one is a pure beauty.

 
 By: amanico : December 26th, 2022-07:05
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Great pics and a great subject!

 
 By: Arronax : December 26th, 2022-12:40
Best debated over a few nice bottles of wine! I've driven many but only owned one, an 89 930 3.2 Carrera. Before buying it I had the chance to test drive the 964, 993 and 996 but the 930 was the most charming one with the thin steering wheel even though t... 
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991.1 - 997.2 - 997.1 - 996. I totally follow your superbly elaborated logic, but would you prefer the 996 to the 930 or the 964???

 
 By: amanico : December 26th, 2022-16:08
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PS: I get your point about the Cayman versus the A 110. You are right on all points.

 
 By: amanico : December 26th, 2022-16:08
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As an occasional toy

 
 By: Arronax : December 26th, 2022-21:30
The 964 but they've gone up a lot in prices like most air cooled, followed by the 930. I love the small blocks (2.4 or 2.7 but that's almost out of reach nowadays). My current use dictates near daily usage and for that reason in my case 996 would be my ch... 
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Now I totally understand your point of view. That makes sense.

 
 By: amanico : December 26th, 2022-21:40
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Hi, not sure you mean 1989 930 (3.3 turbo) or 1989 911 3.2 Carrera.

 
 By: KitKit : December 27th, 2022-02:27
They are quite different animals.
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Totally different animals! Both are ok for me.

 
 By: amanico : December 27th, 2022-06:26
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997 SC and 964 Turbo

 
 By: Gelato Monster : December 27th, 2022-00:28
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Hehehe, two of my favorites!

 
 By: amanico : December 27th, 2022-06:26
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oops

 
 By: Gelato Monster : December 27th, 2022-06:43
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:))))

 
 By: amanico : December 27th, 2022-06:59
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Fat and heavy

 
 By: 198042 : December 28th, 2022-16:42
Up to the F-series, the 911s were rather light and nimble. By growing them fatter and bigger, Porsche has done those enthusiasts a disservice who want to feel their cars directly, visceral and analog. The G-series started the gain weight disease in 1974. ...  
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Hmmm, Richard, this 2,7... Thanks for your feedback, mon ami.

 
 By: amanico : December 28th, 2022-16:43
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It would "fly" once you got over 200 km/h

 
 By: 198042 : December 28th, 2022-16:52
It was a real work-out to keep it on the road. If you look at the gaps around the door or the hood, you will notice that it was in very good shape.... We had completely gone over the body in 1977/78. There had been zero rust-proofing from the factory :-(
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Aaah, these good old cars.... ;)

 
 By: amanico : December 28th, 2022-17:54
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I think everyone should have a 911, if even just for a few years. I would go for the 993. I had a 997 Targa which I really enjoyed.

 
 By: nasseriq : January 1st, 2023-12:38
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Thanks for your feedback, my friend. I will think about that...

 
 By: amanico : January 1st, 2023-14:19
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Hello, this is mine on a trip in the french alps.

 
 By: akki68 : January 14th, 2023-20:57
Enter text ...  
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Superb. Lucky you. Welcome here, by the way.

 
 By: amanico : January 14th, 2023-21:05
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Thank you very much for your welcome.

 
 By: akki68 : January 14th, 2023-21:15
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Pleasure!

 
 By: amanico : January 14th, 2023-22:04
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i love your plates.....

 
 By: @lberti : April 19th, 2023-13:21
in albanian this literaly means "Oh yes, 992!"
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Great post, Nico

 
 By: Blue and White : January 15th, 2023-18:53
In my very personal opinion, the 991.1 is my favorite one (although all generations are great). I just love the styling, the lovely taillights and the face with the smoldering indicator lights, plus it was the last generation with naturally aspirated engi... 
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You may well be right. Thanks for your feedback, mon ami.

 
 By: amanico : January 15th, 2023-19:03
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930 = Widowmaker

 
 By: Lunar fan : January 26th, 2023-21:53
I have driven lots of 911s on the street and track - the modern varieties are relatively tame and well sorted out -- but the older turbos were dangerous. The 911 Turbo aka 930 picked up the nickname " the Widowmaker " because of its unusual driving charac... 
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Thanks for your feedback, Lunar fan. You are right about the 930. A difficult car to pilot. Enjoy yours!

 
 By: amanico : January 26th, 2023-21:57
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2,7 RS

 
 By: hans_jorgen_1968 : February 20th, 2023-14:01
2,7 RS I still remember a day in Sydney (while I lived in Australia) where a friend of a friend gave me the keys to his right hand driven 2,7 RS. “Take it for a spin, and see you in the evening” And, he said that in the morning One of my best cars days ev... 
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Wow, what a great offer!!! It must have been a fantastic day.

 
 By: amanico : February 20th, 2023-16:04
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It was

 
 By: hans_jorgen_1968 : February 20th, 2023-16:57
The gentlemen also promised me a drive sometime later in a GT3 with race specs.. but the day before I came back he had smashed it on the race track, and the second GT3 he had was in Melbourne..
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What a lack of luck!

 
 By: amanico : February 20th, 2023-17:30
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Theres no question

 
 By: Seb : February 22nd, 2023-08:18
its 964 all the way.
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I am not far from sharing your preference.

 
 By: amanico : February 22nd, 2023-09:21
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964 targa

 
 By: Sportster : April 18th, 2023-22:04
...  
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Hmmmm, lovely! Yours?

 
 By: amanico : April 19th, 2023-06:33
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👍🏻

 
 By: Sportster : April 19th, 2023-18:30
Cool ride for those into these things but prefer the s2000 especially on a track.
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That's a totally different thing, indeed. Hard to compare these two.

 
 By: amanico : April 20th, 2023-07:48
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