A. Lange & Söhne

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Honestly, we hold these watch companies go way-too-high standards these days IMHO

I take back my comment

I thought Lange finishes even the surfaces that are not visible to the eye ... or, am I confusing with some other brand ?!!

the surface shown is visible!!

Still, a rudimentary level of finishing could’ve been carried out, given the nature of how well their indices are done, and the top of the hands.

Would not notice. Being a subsidiary, with a parent which expects profits, this is not surprising. Sometimes, all expenses, cannot be spared, in the chase of a larger P/L turnout. Sorry, but I am always reminded of this so often.

However, would it really make that big a difference to just finish the underside of those hands? especially ALS boasts about even finishing the parts that you can't see...

Likes to use. I hear you I do, I guess I am just not surprised, that’s all.

who finishes these parts? PP, VC breguet? I would assume independent would, but maybe not

for sure PP and Breguet do not do it. In fact, Breguet does not even blue the underside...quite disappointed to see...

Got these photos from a friend ...  

...if somehow blueing the other side somehow changes the color of the top side.

It’s physically impossible to not blue both sides, when done properly, using heat. Guess we know who doesn’t heat blue their hands… or at least not every model.

The fact that hands can be, or lacquered, to emulate the old traditional process is enough to know about rather than than the full ins and out of how it’s actually achieved. In the context of my comment and the photos above, then it seems fairly certain B... 

It doesn't harm my appreciation of the watch, but it is interesting. I should ask about the bluing process and if that needs to be one sided or what.

Just disappointed in this regard..still love their movments.

Taken on my 5196 ...  

I like this photo more since you had such a small surface to reflect the backside of the hands on.

It took some time to take this shot. 😅

I think anything dial side would be meticulously finished. I guess pre macro on cell phone people weren't really getting these shots 🤣

Posted the same but his reflection was via one of the numerals ... its showed a similar finish and someone else commented that it may have been the guilloche of the dial reflecting... Interesting fact is that another member mentioned to make a pic via the... 

I was very disappointed to find out the underside is not finished. I don't imagine it's that much more to do especially ALS boasts about finishing sides that people don't see.

it's hard to fathom why to leave it that way other than cost saving.

I wouldn't think that would cause that much reflections?

but they could still finish but with matte or non polished techniques

Maybe back to the beginning of mechanical time pieces.

Amazing photo !

As others have already commented, however, this seems to be very common, even among (large) high-level brands. What's harder to comprehend to me is, when so much care is placed in finishing parts of the movement that cannot be seen, why the same is not tr...  

Even on the movement side, not all parts are finely finished. I think there needs to be some scope on this. It's well finished for to the naked eyes..that's true..but not under a loupe..

What parts are not really finished?

like the engraving cocks on my ZW has two bad executions on the corners of the engraving....or 9'oclock marker on my L1 has a nick...etc. Yes, they're finished..but not that meticulously finished on all..

minor imperfections are perfectly acceptable and are the reason why those objects have a soul and character - if you want absolute perfection then hand finishing is not for you. I was in your boat a few years ago and I have asked many top indie watchmaker... 

Plus...engraving is technically "hand finishing"... it's done by hand..

If you have an issue that is big- something that unfortunately happens even with the smallest of Indies, you should bring it to their attention and they will take care of it for you. If you don't have any connection directly with the brand feel free to me... 

I was going to wait until I need to send them in for service because technically, it's just aesthetics issue and does not affect anything other than I know can't unsee them anymore..LOL...but the fact it happened on multiple pieces I own..I was disappoint... 

Or dials, or cases, at least as far as I know. They make movements. I believe they’ve been pretty open about it. In my opinion, I think it’s unreasonable to expect the underside of the hands to be “finished.” Think about how they are made. To be polished ... 

If other brands can do it, so should Lange. Even when it’s sourced, they could set the requirements for their vendor. If they decide not to do it for business or whatever reason, it’s fine. But to say it’s not possible, I don’t quite agree when others sho... 

And instead apply the effort to the movement. Cheers, Brandon

... any anomaly requiring magnification for me to see. If I can see the anomaly with my naked eye, then it'll probably bother me. If I need magnification to see it, then it probably won't bother me.

I mean, I know they "could", just don't think they "should"

Still, it's a watchmaker's website and not a legal document...if they place so much pride on their level of finishing, then why get caught doing such a poor job on the hands? ;-)

A couple of years ago while watching a video on their website I noticed that the bevels on a bridge were done by a robotic arm and not a human one. I asked the question about this ti ALS and got the answer that it is indeed CNC machines that execute the b... 

The bevels are done by CNC and they never hid that. in fact, Lange is not unique in their use of CNC to produce cut mainplates. Patek, VC, AP, Roger Smith, FPJ all use CNC to cut their manipulates with bevels. Also, the fact that its cut doesn't mean it d... 

When I conveyed the question to Romain Guthier about their finishing to the hands , they actually finish both sides

If you list KV, Romain Gauthier, Greubel Forsey, Gronefeld, Rexhep, and ask people here to rank them by desirability, I imagine RG would be at the bottom. That's a hard list to compete in, but still they don't seem to have a group who put them first or at... 

He's such a down to earth gentleman that he would never beat his own drum.

With regards to Lange, when they say all parts are finished even the ones we don't see is in reference to the movement - something that is indisputable. In regards to the hand not being polished underneath I discovered this a few weeks back and posted the... 

But wasn’t sure to mention your name - i will say that despite them referring to the movement i genuinely thought the hands would also be finished nicely. I remember seeing your post and was surprised by it. However, the other members comment seemed plaus... 

So for reference, may I ask which indies are finishing their hands' underside? I understand that this list wouldn't be the end-all answer to the question but I just want to know regardless. (Smith's? Dufour's? Kari's? Akrivia's? Gronefeld's?)

And the low budget Kurono Tokyo even does it.

This is the polite version 😅

It didn’t (hasn’t) stopped him putting the brand as number one on his list of who finishes their pieces best.

The effort it would take to make this right is minimal.

When I first saw it

What I would really be interested in seeing is what a Lange movement looks like without the 3/4 plate on. Know if any pictures of that exist?

I believe those parts under the plate are finished.

Nice find. Brilliant yet flawed is more interesting than completely perfect. However, the appearance of bean-counting is poison to the story of a product at this level of luxury, so the cost engineering must be executed with the same care and attention to... 

But now I am over it

Saxonia moonphase?

I think we have to agree that every other element in that massively zoomed-in picture looks absolutely flawless!!

Yes, I was disappointed when I first discovered it..

Not sure if it's oversight...since Lange is detail oriented..They leave it unfinished for a reason, I'd think.

I think there's no harm about that watch companies don't finish both sides of hand because watch hand is not easy part to finish at both sides. I also must to say that if hand is not finished at both sides it doesn't means that it is a bad watch because t... 

I had thought all along that all parts are finished on Lange watches...that's the main thing..

What is so cool; is that I imagine you planned to take some macros and “discovered” by accident, but in actuality it sounds like you purposely looked for a reflective surface to check the bottom of the hands for finishing...

Yes, that's what happened..I discovered it before, then took this shot to show it more easily by using the reflection of the moon.

Leaving the "unseen" side of the hands unpolished means they retain their mechanical stiffness. The roughness increases the micro surface area of the underside and the "hills and valleys" of the unfinished area acts like sandblasting of a sheet of metal t... 

Why don’t we just ask ALS? 🙂

UN, Moser, Romain Gauthier...to name a few... but not sure if they did it on their own or done by their suppliers..

I have never seen the underside of a dial with any finishing, and I am very curious about this now!

Here is my Moser Here is UN from Singaporewatchclub IG account ...  

I'd like to know if any manufacturers perform any finishing work on the back side of their dials -- where the markers attach, etc. -- or if every manufacturer leaves the back side of their dials completely unfinished. Like the back side of the hands, the ... 

Will need to go the brand or watchmakers.

Maybe ALS “only” trying to claim that the components of the movement that are covered by a plate are actually polished... NOT trying to claim that every surface on every component of the watch is finished... maybe no mal intent to deceive? There is indeed... 

Also personally it wouldn't bother me unless I can distinctly see it with just my eyes. But given the choice, yes I would've preferred polished undersides as well at this level.

I doubt it. And for that matter, the inside of a closed caseback. Is that ever finished? I doubt it. These non-finishing **standards** go back to the beginning of watchmaking and I am sure the unfinished hands are part of that **tradition**. In spite of t...