Notice something? 😉

May 14, 2020,11:03 AM

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LOL! [nt]

 By: Brandon Skinner : May 14th, 2020-13:09

Blasphemous. Which timepiece is this?

 By: Lankysudanese : May 14th, 2020-11:11
Honestly, we hold these watch companies go way-too-high standards these days IMHO

The mighty ALS!!!???

 By: Lankysudanese : May 14th, 2020-11:30
I take back my comment

Yes ALS [nt]

 By: mj23 : May 14th, 2020-11:42

Interesting ...

 By: diracpoint : May 14th, 2020-11:17
I thought Lange finishes even the surfaces that are not visible to the eye ... or, am I confusing with some other brand ?!!

And, one could even argue that ...

 By: diracpoint : May 14th, 2020-13:35
the surface shown is visible!!

Thanks! [nt]

 By: mj23 : May 14th, 2020-12:42

Very different price point there.

 By: Boron : May 14th, 2020-15:14
Still, a rudimentary level of finishing could’ve been carried out, given the nature of how well their indices are done, and the top of the hands.

Thanks! :) [nt]

 By: mj23 : May 14th, 2020-12:27

Every Corp will cut costs where consumers, usually, they think at least.

 By: Ted-Lo : May 14th, 2020-12:12
Would not notice. Being a subsidiary, with a parent which expects profits, this is not surprising. Sometimes, all expenses, cannot be spared, in the chase of a larger P/L turnout. Sorry, but I am always reminded of this so often.

I think cost cutting may be the reason

 By: mj23 : May 14th, 2020-12:27
However, would it really make that big a difference to just finish the underside of those hands? especially ALS boasts about even finishing the parts that you can't see...

I hear you, and agree, I think that’s some sales fluff ALS

 By: Ted-Lo : May 14th, 2020-12:28
Likes to use. I hear you I do, I guess I am just not surprised, that’s all.

Anyone know

 By: TeutonicCarFan : May 14th, 2020-12:16
who finishes these parts? PP, VC breguet? I would assume independent would, but maybe not

I know

 By: mj23 : May 14th, 2020-12:19
for sure PP and Breguet do not do it. In fact, Breguet does not even blue the underside...quite disappointed to see...

Breguet only finishes and blues one side

 By: mj23 : May 14th, 2020-12:21
Got these photos from a friend ...  

I can understand the blueing not on both sides

 By: Brandon Skinner : May 14th, 2020-13:11
...if somehow blueing the other side somehow changes the color of the top side.

Chemical treatment by the looks of it.

 By: Boron : May 14th, 2020-14:40
It’s physically impossible to not blue both sides, when done properly, using heat. Guess we know who doesn’t heat blue their hands
 or at least not every model.

Btw, what chemical is used? [nt]

 By: Spangles - Mr. Tabby : May 16th, 2020-06:03

I wouldn’t have a clue
 not something I’ve bothered to research deeply.

 By: Boron : May 16th, 2020-07:55
The fact that hands can be, or lacquered, to emulate the old traditional process is enough to know about rather than than the full ins and out of how it’s actually achieved. In the context of my comment and the photos above, then it seems fairly certain B... 

I'm wearing that very model watch today!

 By: Spangles - Mr. Tabby : May 14th, 2020-14:34
It doesn't harm my appreciation of the watch, but it is interesting. I should ask about the bluing process and if that needs to be one sided or what.

Same here..I am still a big fan of doubt in that..

 By: mj23 : May 14th, 2020-14:43
Just disappointed in this regard..still love their movments.

PP does not finish either

 By: mj23 : May 14th, 2020-12:22
Taken on my 5196 ...  

Great shot, btw. [nt]

 By: Spangles - Mr. Tabby : May 14th, 2020-14:34

Thanks!! [nt]

 By: mj23 : May 14th, 2020-14:43

From an execution perspective

 By: darrony : May 15th, 2020-00:09
I like this photo more since you had such a small surface to reflect the backside of the hands on.


 By: mj23 : May 18th, 2020-19:52
It took some time to take this shot. 😅

Thanks! [nt]

 By: mj23 : May 18th, 2020-21:44

Appears most do not

 By: TeutonicCarFan : May 14th, 2020-12:35
I think anything dial side would be meticulously finished. I guess pre macro on cell phone people weren't really getting these shots đŸ€Ł

A month ago another member...

 By: sc16 : May 14th, 2020-12:22
Posted the same but his reflection was via one of the numerals ... its showed a similar finish and someone else commented that it may have been the guilloche of the dial reflecting... Interesting fact is that another member mentioned to make a pic via the... 


 By: mj23 : May 14th, 2020-12:26
I was very disappointed to find out the underside is not finished. I don't imagine it's that much more to do especially ALS boasts about finishing sides that people don't see.

It'd be interesting to know why if that's their intention...

 By: mj23 : May 14th, 2020-12:37
it's hard to fathom why to leave it that way other than cost saving.

to reduce reflections? [nt]

 By: Reuven Malter : May 14th, 2020-12:43

Could be, it'd be cool to know for sure

 By: mj23 : May 14th, 2020-12:45
I wouldn't think that would cause that much reflections?


 By: TeutonicCarFan : May 14th, 2020-13:02
but they could still finish but with matte or non polished techniques

Very interesting

 By: stabilizer : May 14th, 2020-12:49
Amazing photo !

A picture worth a $50k (refund)... ;-)

 By: FabR : May 14th, 2020-13:05
As others have already commented, however, this seems to be very common, even among (large) high-level brands. What's harder to comprehend to me is, when so much care is placed in finishing parts of the movement that cannot be seen, why the same is not tr...  

Thanks for the ALS snippet, FabR.

 By: mj23 : May 14th, 2020-13:09
Even on the movement side, not all parts are finely finished. I think there needs to be some scope on this. It's well finished for to the naked eyes..that's true..but not under a loupe..

Very interested in this.

 By: Thewindingstem : May 14th, 2020-13:52
What parts are not really finished?

What I meant was that not all parts are that finely finished..

 By: mj23 : May 14th, 2020-14:06
like the engraving cocks on my ZW has two bad executions on the corners of the engraving....or 9'oclock marker on my L1 has a nick...etc. Yes, they're finished..but not that meticulously finished on all..

its a hand finished process.

 By: Thewindingstem : May 14th, 2020-14:25
minor imperfections are perfectly acceptable and are the reason why those objects have a soul and character - if you want absolute perfection then hand finishing is not for you. I was in your boat a few years ago and I have asked many top indie watchmaker... 

Those things I pointed out are not minor...minor I can accept..If I have a chance, I will show you..

 By: mj23 : May 14th, 2020-14:28
Plus...engraving is technically "hand finishing"... it's done by hand..

Ive had issues with Lange but everything has been addressed.

 By: Thewindingstem : May 14th, 2020-14:35
If you have an issue that is big- something that unfortunately happens even with the smallest of Indies, you should bring it to their attention and they will take care of it for you. If you don't have any connection directly with the brand feel free to me... 

Thanks so much for your help!

 By: mj23 : May 14th, 2020-14:42
I was going to wait until I need to send them in for service because technically, it's just aesthetics issue and does not affect anything other than I know can't unsee them anymore..LOL...but the fact it happened on multiple pieces I own..I was disappoint... 

Keep in mind Lange does not make the hands.

 By: brandon1 : May 14th, 2020-21:03
Or dials, or cases, at least as far as I know. They make movements. I believe they’ve been pretty open about it. In my opinion, I think it’s unreasonable to expect the underside of the hands to be “finished.” Think about how they are made. To be polished ... 


 By: mj23 : May 14th, 2020-22:14
If other brands can do it, so should Lange. Even when it’s sourced, they could set the requirements for their vendor. If they decide not to do it for business or whatever reason, it’s fine. But to say it’s not possible, I don’t quite agree when others sho... 

Fair enough. In my view, I’d prefer the other brands not do it either,

 By: brandon1 : May 14th, 2020-22:52
And instead apply the effort to the movement. Cheers, Brandon

I appreciate your thoughtfulness here. I define a "minor" anomaly as ...

 By: CR : May 15th, 2020-19:43
... any anomaly requiring magnification for me to see. If I can see the anomaly with my naked eye, then it'll probably bother me. If I need magnification to see it, then it probably won't bother me.

Could they argue the hands are not part of the movement?đŸ€”

 By: Brandon Skinner : May 14th, 2020-13:14
I mean, I know they "could", just don't think they "should"

Judging by how they phrase that sentence, they seem to explicitly define movement as the part "visible through the [...] caseback," so they are technically still being truthful...

 By: FabR : May 14th, 2020-13:26
Still, it's a watchmaker's website and not a legal document...if they place so much pride on their level of finishing, then why get caught doing such a poor job on the hands? ;-)

Lange is lying about the bevels

 By: northerner : May 14th, 2020-13:54
A couple of years ago while watching a video on their website I noticed that the bevels on a bridge were done by a robotic arm and not a human one. I asked the question about this ti ALS and got the answer that it is indeed CNC machines that execute the b... 

Lying is a very strong word and it would be wise to back it with facts.

 By: Thewindingstem : May 14th, 2020-14:16
The bevels are done by CNC and they never hid that. in fact, Lange is not unique in their use of CNC to produce cut mainplates. Patek, VC, AP, Roger Smith, FPJ all use CNC to cut their manipulates with bevels. Also, the fact that its cut doesn't mean it d... 

Yeah I’ve read the IG post and was equally shocked from ALS to not finish the underside of the hands

 By: Mohannad (aka Riddler) : May 14th, 2020-13:12
When I conveyed the question to Romain Guthier about their finishing to the hands , they actually finish both sides

I'm glad you asked him! I feel perhaps Romain Gauthier does not get the respect for his work that he should.

 By: Spangles - Mr. Tabby : May 14th, 2020-14:28
If you list KV, Romain Gauthier, Greubel Forsey, Gronefeld, Rexhep, and ask people here to rank them by desirability, I imagine RG would be at the bottom. That's a hard list to compete in, but still they don't seem to have a group who put them first or at... 

So you're the one!

 By: Spangles - Mr. Tabby : May 14th, 2020-17:36

Am a huge fan too [nt]

 By: Mohannad (aka Riddler) : May 14th, 2020-17:44

RG's work is fantastic.

 By: batholith : May 16th, 2020-03:47
He's such a down to earth gentleman that he would never beat his own drum.

Thanks!! :) [nt]

 By: mj23 : May 14th, 2020-14:07

I think our expectations are not exactly fair.

 By: Thewindingstem : May 14th, 2020-13:17
With regards to Lange, when they say all parts are finished even the ones we don't see is in reference to the movement - something that is indisputable. In regards to the hand not being polished underneath I discovered this a few weeks back and posted the... 

Yep... you were the one i was referring to in my initial response.

 By: sc16 : May 14th, 2020-15:02
But wasn’t sure to mention your name - i will say that despite them referring to the movement i genuinely thought the hands would also be finished nicely. I remember seeing your post and was surprised by it. However, the other members comment seemed plaus... 

I learn something new everyday :D

 By: Raddistry : May 17th, 2020-03:37
So for reference, may I ask which indies are finishing their hands' underside? I understand that this list wouldn't be the end-all answer to the question but I just want to know regardless. (Smith's? Dufour's? Kari's? Akrivia's? Gronefeld's?)

Romain Gauthier for one

 By: mj23 : May 17th, 2020-05:58
And the low budget Kurono Tokyo even does it.

Mr Dufour would be very disappointed

 By: piccolochimico (aka dsgalaxy1) : May 14th, 2020-14:04
This is the polite version 😅

LOL!! [nt]

 By: mj23 : May 14th, 2020-14:07

Depends on whether the hands on his Datograph were done because they knew who it was for or he dropped it into the conversation.

 By: Boron : May 14th, 2020-15:12
It didn’t (hasn’t) stopped him putting the brand as number one on his list of who finishes their pieces best.

Nicely caught. [nt]

 By: amanico : May 14th, 2020-14:49

Thanks Nico! [nt]

 By: mj23 : May 14th, 2020-14:51

This is really surprising to me and disappointing.

 By: descartes1 : May 14th, 2020-14:54
The effort it would take to make this right is minimal.

I was surprised and disappointed

 By: mj23 : May 14th, 2020-20:20
When I first saw it

Hahah good find!

 By: jleno : May 14th, 2020-15:23
What I would really be interested in seeing is what a Lange movement looks like without the 3/4 plate on. Know if any pictures of that exist?


 By: mj23 : May 14th, 2020-20:20
I believe those parts under the plate are finished.

Very interesting

 By: jmpTT : May 14th, 2020-16:15
Nice find. Brilliant yet flawed is more interesting than completely perfect. However, the appearance of bean-counting is poison to the story of a product at this level of luxury, so the cost engineering must be executed with the same care and attention to... 

I was shocked too.

 By: mj23 : May 14th, 2020-20:19
But now I am over it

What ref. is this?

 By: LS : May 14th, 2020-19:54
Saxonia moonphase?

L1 Moonphase [nt]

 By: mj23 : May 14th, 2020-20:18

On the other hand ...

 By: diracpoint : May 14th, 2020-22:51
I think we have to agree that every other element in that massively zoomed-in picture looks absolutely flawless!!

Thanks Patrick

 By: mj23 : May 15th, 2020-13:54
Yes, I was disappointed when I first discovered it..

Thanks Pun!

 By: mj23 : May 15th, 2020-13:55
Not sure if it's oversight...since Lange is detail oriented..They leave it unfinished for a reason, I'd think.

Nice pic and interesting theme.

 By: Tsoroev Rashid : May 15th, 2020-00:05
I think there's no harm about that watch companies don't finish both sides of hand because watch hand is not easy part to finish at both sides. I also must to say that if hand is not finished at both sides it doesn't means that it is a bad watch because t... 

Yes, unfinished underside is not a big deal and will not affect the function of time telling

 By: mj23 : May 15th, 2020-13:56
I had thought all along that all parts are finished on Lange watches...that's the main thing..

Brilliant photo...

 By: darrony : May 15th, 2020-00:08
What is so cool; is that I imagine you planned to take some macros and “discovered” by accident, but in actuality it sounds like you purposely looked for a reflective surface to check the bottom of the hands for finishing...

Thanks darrony!

 By: mj23 : May 15th, 2020-13:57
Yes, that's what happened..I discovered it before, then took this shot to show it more easily by using the reflection of the moon.

Brilliant photos but there may be another reason

 By: chippyfly : May 15th, 2020-02:35
Leaving the "unseen" side of the hands unpolished means they retain their mechanical stiffness. The roughness increases the micro surface area of the underside and the "hills and valleys" of the unfinished area acts like sandblasting of a sheet of metal t... 

Very interesting point!

 By: darrony : May 15th, 2020-07:04
Why don’t we just ask ALS? 🙂

Yes, some brands do..

 By: mj23 : May 15th, 2020-13:59
UN, Moser, Romain name a few... but not sure if they did it on their own or done by their suppliers..

Can you direct me to photos of the UN and/or Moser dial undersides? I would love to see how these are finished!

 By: CR : May 16th, 2020-07:36
I have never seen the underside of a dial with any finishing, and I am very curious about this now!

Here they are

 By: mj23 : May 16th, 2020-07:42
Here is my Moser Here is UN from Singaporewatchclub IG account ...  

Lovely pics, but I was asking about the back side of the DIAL, not the hands...

 By: CR : May 16th, 2020-13:15
I'd like to know if any manufacturers perform any finishing work on the back side of their dials -- where the markers attach, etc. -- or if every manufacturer leaves the back side of their dials completely unfinished. Like the back side of the hands, the ... 

That question

 By: mj23 : May 16th, 2020-13:28
Will need to go the brand or watchmakers.

Maybe we are misinterpreting ALS’ famous claim....

 By: darrony : May 15th, 2020-07:17
Maybe ALS “only” trying to claim that the components of the movement that are covered by a plate are actually polished... NOT trying to claim that every surface on every component of the watch is finished... maybe no mal intent to deceive? There is indeed... 

Looking forward to an official brand response

 By: dte2 : May 15th, 2020-08:27
Also personally it wouldn't bother me unless I can distinctly see it with just my eyes. But given the choice, yes I would've preferred polished undersides as well at this level.

What about the underside of a dial? Is that ever finished?

 By: Jim : May 16th, 2020-11:52
I doubt it. And for that matter, the inside of a closed caseback. Is that ever finished? I doubt it. These non-finishing **standards** go back to the beginning of watchmaking and I am sure the unfinished hands are part of that **tradition**. In spite of t...