Not sure of ebauches delivery vs. completed movements.

Nov 16, 2005,04:04 AM

I don't know the details of companies which used complete movements vs. those which used ebauches for their watches. I'd like to learn more about JLC's role as a movement supplier, so I would welcome any information on this topic.

Here is a very brief list of a few movements that are based on JLC movements. I don't know much about Cartier, Chopard, & Piaget's use of JLC movements. IWC has used cal. 960 & cal. 849 in the past in Portofino & Novecento models, but I don't think those are still in production.

Breguet cal. 530 used a JLC cal. 818 (/4 or /5?) ebauche
AP cal. 2140 uses a JLC cal. 960 ebauche
AP cal. 2003 & VC cal. 1003 based on JLC cal. 803?
AP cal. 2120 & VC cal. 1120 based on JLC cal. 920

Many companies have used the JLC cal. 889/2 ebauche:
-the complicated watches often have a different calibre number
IWC cal. 887/2 & 884/2 (different finishing & rotor weights)
AP cal. 2225 (many AP use cal. 2125 or 2126 based on JLC cal. 888?)
Breguet cal. 549
VC cal. 1126/1 (VC cal. 1126 is based on JLC cal. 888)


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What different companies does MJLC manufacturer base movements for ?

 By: Dhiraj Doshi : November 15th, 2005-11:11
Dear All, I am a complete Jaeger-LeCoultre fan .I just bought myself a Master Compressor Dulamatic and put a dark brown horn back strap on it .I think it is the most beautiful watch i have ever owned . While i made my purchase i was told that JLC manufact... 

JLC movements

 By: Aalok : November 15th, 2005-12:24
Congratulations on the new Master Compressor Dualmatic. That is one of my favorite watches & contains a brand new movement design from JLC. You can be confident that JLC produces extremely high quality movements. There is a long history within the Swiss w... 

Very considered answer thanks!

 By: Jaw : November 15th, 2005-08:20
I have done some compilation of movements supply to th industiw my own for some years. In the history of jlc, it was more than ebauch supplies. Many famous pieces were in fact made for other famous brands. Will post when i am home. Jaw posted via nokia n7... 

I'm particularly thinking of AP and VC

 By: Gary : November 15th, 2005-09:21
Seems that many VCs I look at have characteristic signs of JLC movements! For example, isn't the Toledo based on the same movement as the JLC MM? Then there's the AP Millenary Maserati two time-zone watch whose sub-dial placement is suspiciously like that... 

There is no need to be "suspicious" about it; it is openly acknowledged fact that

 By: ThomasM : November 16th, 2005-02:14
the two "superlative" movements of the 20th century, the AP/VC 2003/1003, and the AP/VC 2120/1120, were JLC developments, initiated and funded by AP and VC (and in the second case, by PP as well) The manual wind ultra thin was itself based upon a L.E. Pig... 

Thanks a lot guys

 By: Dhiraj Doshi : November 16th, 2005-07:07

Are you sure of everything...

 By: Dje : November 16th, 2005-02:02
for what I have seen MJLC delivers also (mainly?) finished and assembled movements for their main customers. They also deliver to Van Cleef et Arpels, and it seems that they deliver Piaget too (just for one watch). I know that Lemania delivers also some a... 

Not sure of ebauches delivery vs. completed movements.

 By: Aalok : November 16th, 2005-04:04
I don't know the details of companies which used complete movements vs. those which used ebauches for their watches. I'd like to learn more about JLC's role as a movement supplier, so I would welcome any information on this topic. Here is a very brief lis... 


 By: Dje : November 16th, 2005-06:06

non exhaustive list...

 By: Jaw : November 21st, 2005-04:16

Thanks alok

 By: Dhiraj Doshi : November 16th, 2005-07:07


 By: Felix : November 16th, 2005-07:07
Probably worth noting AP had an equity stake in JLC, A stake they sold to Richemont and partly used to finance the America's cup initiative. Regards

They also used some of the proceeds from the sale to complete the ownership

 By: ThomasM : November 16th, 2005-01:13
of Renaud et Papi, arguably one of the greatest high complications specialists extant today. TM

And part of the deal was also...

 By: Dje : November 17th, 2005-12:12
the rights and tools of caliber 2120, if I understood well (please Thomas correct if I'm wrong)! If so 2120 would be a real 100% manufacture caliber for AP now.

Non exhaustive list...but the info collected so far, all rights reserved...

 By: Jaw : November 16th, 2005-08:08
This is based on what I know, listed are various movements supplied throughout the period stated (may not be continuous supplied throughtout the period) and may or may not be the current situation, some watches supplied are complete watches, others are wh... 

Excellent, interesting list. I would caution readers, though, to bear in mind that

 By: ThomasM : November 16th, 2005-01:13
Jaw intended his list to include brands which were supplied movements - complete or ebauche - by JLC, from JLC's side. I am sure he did not mean to imply (as might be easily mistakenly concluded) that these brands relied EXCLUSIVELY on JLC movements, comp... 

Thanks for clarifying things.

 By: Aalok : November 16th, 2005-05:17
I enjoy looking into the historical connections in the Swiss watch industry, especially regarding JLC & F. Piguet. These topics can often be misinterpreted and serve as the foundation for making value judgements on the various companies involved. This is ... 

I made a typographical error in my earlier post, which you repeated here...

 By: ThomasM : November 16th, 2005-06:18
Hi, Aalok, That should have been L.E. Piguet, not F. Piguet. The LE Piguet origins of the cal. 1003/2003 manual ultra thin are not widely known, and I only found out about it after decades of interest in the industry, and then only because of a fortuitous... 

Thanks for the compliments

 By: Aalok : November 20th, 2005-08:20

and Breguet

 By: ei8htohms : November 16th, 2005-04:16
Hi Guys, In addition to the JLC based Breguet calibers already listed in this thread (Cal. 549 and 530), Breguet also used the JLC Cal. 839 ultrathin, calling it Breguet Cal. 509 (or possibly 503, I can't remember which, the other one is the Breguet versi... 

Ok - JAW beat me there... nt

 By: DeVille : November 16th, 2005-09:09